Ep. 522 - Wealth Beyond Finance: Unpacking the Emotional Terrain of Money

In this episode of the All Around Growth Podcast, we explore the emotional terrain of money.  We explore audience feedback from our Telegram group, where the emotional aspects of money take center stage.  We talk about the skepticism surrounding financial advice on social media, and the importance of simplicity in financial strategies, and why money is such a sensitive topic.  

We also challenge the notion of wealth, asking if it's more than just finances.  

• What does wealth look like to you?
• Is wealth more than finance?
• Does wealth mean homesteading and living a good life?
• What does "homesteading" even mean?

Join us as we navigate the emotional landscape of finance, challenge conventional wisdom, and seek a richer, more fulfilling life.  Thank you for being part of the All Around Growth community and join the Telegram group for deeper connections.

Audience Feedback:
In the episode, we explore audience comments like:

• The skepticism around financial advice on social media.
• The importance of simplicity and not complicating financial strategies.
• The emotional aspect of money and why it's such a sensitive topic.
• The role of parents in teaching financial responsibility.

Building Wealth:
We also touch on the idea of wealth extending beyond just financial assets.  How does wealth look to you? Is it about more than money?  As we explore these conversations, we delve into the broader concept of living a good life.

Get Involved:
If you want to be part of our discussions and contribute to the core of this show, join us on Telegram at https://t.me/allaroundgrowth.  It's where the magic happens and the show truly comes together.

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Like & Follow on Social Media or connect via email!

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/allaroundgrowth

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/allaroundgrowth

Email:  allaroundgrowth@gmail.com

Telegram Group Chat: https://t.me/allaroundgrowth

Twitter:  https://twitter.com/allaroundgrowth

Facebook Community:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/allaroundgrowth

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Discussion Links:

FREE GOAL-SETTING GUIDE: SET GOALS FOR THE 7 MAIN AREAS OF YOUR LIFE by Dan Miller

The rich won't tell you this!! - Financial advice you SHOULD NOT listen to

Financial advice you SHOULD listen to 👉 - Financial Peace University

Living Paycheck to Paycheck: Charles Schwab Survey

Auto Loans:  Experian - Auto Loan Debt Trends

Savings and Emergency Funds:  Bankrate - Emergency Savings Survey

Living Free in Tennessee - Nicole Sauce

Rachel Cruze

SOE - John sits down with Joel Salatin

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:10

Well, hello there and welcome back to another episode of the All Around Growth Podcast. This is a show where you get to walk along home with me during this life here at York Meadow Farm. A show where you never know what you're going to get, and a show that's always changing. My name is Rob Kaiser and I am your host. For those of you just tuning in, this podcast is a weekly show, a weekly monkey circus, as one audience member recently wrote, and a show that oftentimes has structure and oftentimes does not. If you are a new listener, here's how this generally works, right? You turn in, you tune in, and you listen to me talk. And more often than not, I'm talking about one of seven topics in life: financial, physical, personal development, family, spiritual, social, and career. And for those of you who are curious as to why those seven topics, they come from a goal-setting workbook by Dan Miller that I will link to in the show notes. It served me well in the past, it's going to serve me well in the future. I like those seven topics, so I talk about them a lot in the show. And uh that's so so that's that's that's that on the seven topics and why the show revolves around them. So this podcast is unique because I'm not an expert in any of these topics. I specialize in nothing, right? And the more I live, like the more life I I live, the more I go through life, the more I realize, the less I know. Like I'm largely ignorant of everything in some ways. And in a sense, I tried to articulate this to someone this morning that I'm actively trying to increase my ignorance about the very seven topics that are the very core of the show. And that may not make sense, but I'll elaborate on that or try to in some way in a little bit. So before I go too far off the rails, let's get into what it is that we're going to discuss today in the first place. Now, last week was largely an audience feedback show on the topic of career with episode number 521 titled Career Journey Insights, Answers, and Inspiration from the Audience. And today we're coming full circle and we're going to talk about the topic of finance. So today is Tuesday, October 31st, 2023. This is episode number 522 of the show, and the topic is going to be largely centered around the financial aspect of our lives. Now, we have a little bit of audience feedback for today's show, a little bit of monkey circus, and I say that because I suspect today's show may go a little unhinged and might go off the rails, like I just said. You see, I began looking for feedback on this topic last week, and there was actually very little feedback given. Now there was a lot of feedback in the Telegram group, and it it a lot of it was in the group, some of the feedback was delivered to me privately. So I'm going to cover some of that, we'll see where it takes me. But nevertheless, I think today's show is going to be interesting, so stay tuned. Now, as I just said, the feedback from today's episode comes from the Telegram group. If you want to get in on that action and be a part of the core group of the audience that contributes to the show and makes it what it is, then join us. t.me slash all around growth. Just type that into your browser. You'll be prompted to install Telegram wherever you are, whatever device you're using, PC, laptop, uh phone, tablet, whatever. You know, if you don't want to use it, don't. I don't care. Um, I'd love it if you did, because we've got a great group of people there, and I I think there's a lot to gain, even though it's another app. But hey, if you don't want to use it, that's cool. You do you. But that's where the magic happens, and that's where this show really comes together. So after stewing on this topic for a week, the reality is that this this topic of finance, you know, the financial aspect of our lives, it brings up a lot of emotion. And I think that is why so little feedback was provided on other social media platforms. People don't want to talk about it. You know, career, yeah. Everyone wants to talk about career, right? Why am I burning out? How do I find balance? You know, but but you know, no one wants to talk about finance. So, you know, what's up with that? I think it's largely because we're out of control with our finances, we're out of control with our lives, we're unbalanced. Okay, so now I'm not gonna go unhinged quite yet, but I'll get there, I promise. So let's get to the audience feedback. When I first dropped this topic and mentioned that the audience feedback was truly fantastic, and that I was looking to do another audience feedback show, and that I was looking for feedback on the financial theme. Here's where it led. Okay, you know, it it it was you know, spending, saving, investing, or any other financial matters that were on your mind. I mentioned that we were open to it all. Okay, so people started chiming in in the telegram group. Again, all this feedback comes from the telegram group. Nowhere else. I mean, so like I said, t.me slash all around growth, get in on the action, join us, because I guess, you know, that's what that's where we're engaged. You know, it's it's it's not really happening on any other social media platforms, and in large part due to my own failure to engage on those platforms as much as Telegram. But I don't care. Uh I'm not I'm not I'm not doing this for likes. I'm not I'm not I'm not fishing for engagement, right? I don't I don't participate in the act of engagement farming. I'm just I just do this show. So when I when I first threw this out there and said, hey, what what do you want to talk about? What do you have to say about this? You know, Wayne chimed in and said 99.9% of financial advice on social media is completely stupid, and that people and that and people that believe it refuse to make any attempt at understanding why they're being fooled. So I I I I prompted him and said, Well, how can that be part of the discussion? And he's like, I don't know. If you want to be financially responsible and have any semblance of a chance at any level of wealth or freedom, just watch any of these videos and do the opposite. Well, I didn't know what he what what kind of videos he was talking about, right? And you know, not many other people did either. So he provided us an example. And we're gonna listen to it. I'll link to this in the show notes so you can watch it as well. But here's what he was talking about.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Never once in 16 years was I taught about this. Um, walk the normal person that's never heard of this before through the whole cycle. So I'll just give you an example. So if this was the $100 that I just spent an hour working for, this money's got to go somewhere. Most people would put this in a traditional bank. So you put your money there, but then if I take this hundred dollars back out to give to Cody to go buy real estate, does the bank still pay me 1% on that money? Absolutely. Absolutely not. I change one thing and I take this hundred dollars, instead of putting it in a bank, I set up one of these banking systems and I put this hundred dollars in. 30 days later, you call me up and say, Chris, I got this great deal. You've got to get in on this. I'll pay you 12% if you can lend me $100. I then go to my bank and I take this $100 and I give it to you. But most people would say, well, it's the same as a bank. Nothing. Because I just took the money out. You see, that hundred I just took wasn't even my money. So my money's making six percent, but I just took that money out. Which money do I have? Insurance company. So the insurance company lends me money from their account and collateralizes it with mine. When they do that, that loan they gave me, a lot of people are like, oh, this is that's bad. I don't want another loan, I don't want to pay it back. Great, you don't have to pay it back because what the insurance company gave you is your death benefit early.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Okay. I don't even know I don't even know what that's talking about. Um and and and and this is just I I I think that this is what Wayne's talking about. It it doesn't make any sense. Um and and maybe maybe Wayne is smarter smarter than me, okay. I think a lot of people are just they they know more than I do about all these topics. And I think most people out there know more than me about the financial aspect of life. Okay. So you know this is one of these like reels on Facebook where it says wealthy people operate with different rules. Pay attention because the rich won't tell you this. Hashtag rich secrets, hashtag blowthis up, hashtag business tips. Well, look, man, for the bulk of my life, I've just been like I just I just have not incorporated solid financial principles in my life. And it was about six years ago when I finally decided to do something about it. And for me and my situation at that point in time, Dave Ramsey and his protocols fit the bill. I'd been listening to Dave Ramsey for oh probably eight years or so, nine years on the radio prior to that, and then via podcast, and I finally decided that it was I was long past due to engage these principles in my life. So I participated in Financial Peace University for the first time in 2017, if I'm not mistaken, and then I took the class again in 2018, and then in 2019, I think I took it a third time, and then late 2019, early 2020, I decided to coordinate a course at a local church. Okay, so you know, before I talk a little bit more about Dave Ramsey, I just want to continue on some of these comments there. It basically said, you know, if someone I I I I posited this question to Wayne and said, for someone in a bit more stable financial situation, what would you suggest in terms of investing strategies and ways to go about learning more? Wayne responded with a simple comment and said, Don't make anything one tiny bit more complicated than is absolutely necessary. Simplicity wins. And I said, Okay, you want to expand on that? Like, what do you mean? He said, Read books, lots of books, find what interests you and go deeper. Never spend a penny unless you have a solid idea what you're doing. Never believe any of the get rich quick stuff. If anyone or anything says, quote, the secret wealthy people don't want you to know, or anything similar, it's a scam. Probably a whole life insurance salesman like that video I sent above. Get really good at one thing before doing a new thing. And he says that that was his biggest mistake. Says, don't invest with debt, also part of my biggest mistake. And your best return on investment is sweat equity. Lots of it. If it sounds complicated, it's too risky, and someone else is the big fish trying to eat you. So I think that's solid advice. And he also talks about you know how half of what we make goes straight to the government in the form of taxes. Now, at this point, Letty Liu from the Liberty All Day blog chimed in and said, definitely not stable financially, but educate yourself. She writes that Dave Ramsey isn't for everyone, but he has a lot of good ideas. She also suggests to look at rich people, people who are out of debt. Look at them to get your inspiration. Don't talk to other folks who are double mortgaged, owe multiple vehicle payments, do everything on credit cards, etc. Talk to people who have gotten themselves out of that hole. So this is where I'm going to talk a little bit about Dave Ramsey. Because I know a lot of people take issue with Dave Ramsey. So for those of you who aren't familiar with Dave Ramsey and Financial Peace University, it's really quite simple. Okay. Baby step one, put away a thousand dollars into an emergency fund. Baby step two, pay off all your debt outside of the mortgage. Okay? All of your credit card debt, car loans, whatever the case, medical bills, all of that debt, excluding the mortgage, using the snowball method. Snowball method is paying off your smallest debt first, and then lumping that the payment on that smallest debt into the payment on your next largest debt until you pay that one off, and then lump that payment into the next largest debt payment. And what this does is it encourages us to A start a budget, keep a budget, and B change our patterns of behavior. A lot of people start to argue at this point because, well, you can pay off debt faster if you focus on interest rates and so on and so forth. And you know, if you do the math this way, you'll get out of debt faster. Okay, I it you know, and if you listen to Dave Ramsey, he'll agree with this. But the thing is, from for a lot of people out there that are making $50,000 a year that have $30,000 in debt, when you break down the math and you get out of debt faster by doing all these you know mathematical equations and focusing on this interest rate and that interest rate, rolling over your balance from one card to another for 0% interest for six months and so on and so forth, it turns into a mental train wreck. And in the grand scheme of things, the amount of time that is going to take to pay off that debt by doing all this mental gymnastics with the math, you're really only saving a couple of months in terms of time without really changing any behaviors. So the simple way is the snowball method. It's a methodology that I support and I think makes sense because at that point, once you've gotten out of debt, you continue taking that money that you use to get out of debt, and then you put that into a savings account. Three to six months of savings, liquid cash, money market account, savings account, whatever the case may be, but you've got three to six months of living expenses in just a traditional bank account so that if an emergency happens, when an emergency happens, more likely, you've got that accessible and you don't have to jump through any hoops to get the money that you have. A credit card is not a savings account. This is cash on hand that you can get to at any point in time, but it is used for emergencies. Now, what's worth mentioning is at this point, while you're going through baby steps one, two, and three, you stop investing. And the whole idea with the stopping investing is that you are not making gains on your investments that outweigh the losses that you're incurring on your credit card debt. For example, most credit cards you're losing in terms of interest on that upwards of 20%. Whereas, you know, if you've got solid returns on a mutual fund, you're maybe gaining, you know, 10, 12, 15 on those investments routinely. And there's some all there's always some variables there, but the reality is if you're carrying debt, you're losing more in interest than you're gaining on your investments. So until we're out of debt and until we've got that bait that you know true emergency fund of three to six months in savings, we stop investing. And then we continue investing, okay? And for most people, that's you know, there's there's baby step five and six and seven, and baby step five is you know college funds for the kids, paying off the house, and then ultimately getting to a point where you can live like no one else so that you can live and give like no one else. Lastly, before I continue talking about anything else, I think the key thing in all of this is remembering tithing and charity because I did this for years. I engaged in this program, but I did it my way, and I didn't give. I'm trying to get out of debt, I'm trying to do this, I'm trying to do that, I'm gonna focus all of my funds on my debt, and I didn't give no charity, no tithing, no nothing. And you know what happened? I plateaued, I stalled. I had about two or three thousand dollars of debt remaining, and I got stuck. So it wasn't until I finally decided to give in and start giving away the first portion of my whatever income I had at that point in time, when the income arrived, when I got paid, the first thing that I did was make a payment or write a check that was a tithe or a charity or something. And all of a sudden, when I made giving my top priority, it was only a matter of time before everything else snowballed and I started to become more aware of what I was spending my money on, and then I got out of debt. Now, since then I've accumulated some debts, medical debts, things like that, so I'm back in baby step two. Okay, you know, this is this is this is it's not just a thing that you do and then you're done, but this the the principles outlined in Financial Peace University are more of a life path, it's a way of living, okay? So, you know, you can bicker and and and and fight about, you know, Dave Ramsey's right and Dave Ramsey's wrong, and there's alternative strategies. Well, here's the deal with Dave Ramsay, okay? Dave Ramsey's a dude who at one point in his life went through a bankruptcy and lost about everything. And then he built this business and now has, if I'm not mistaken, six hundred million dollars of real estate and a portfolio that he accumulated with cash. Okay, so I want to take financial advice from a dude who's got a fat portfolio that was funded and largely paid for with cash because a guy like that, I'm pretty confident, knows what he's doing. I don't want to pay, I don't Want to listen to somebody else who's you know playing the crypto game and doing a bunch of dumb shit because he doesn't have that. Period. Okay, so until I get to a point where you know I've got my house paid for and I've got everything you know locked up and taken care of, and I feel comfortable giving financial advice. I'm gonna listen to people who have been there, done that, and got the t-shirt, as Dave says, and I'm gonna listen to them. And more often than not, it requires doing things that make me uncomfortable, giving, sacrifice, you know, just doing things that make me uncomfortable. So that's what it takes to get out of debt, and that's what it takes to you know get beyond the norm of where we are. And speaking of debt, you know, one of the other comments that was that was dropped is this this topic of finance. You know, Sean chimed in and and wrote that you know, this this topic of finance has been on his heart lately. And he asked, why is money such an emotional topic for many? Now, he said he knows people on either end of the spectrum, each with very unhealthy relationships with money. And then he went in and talked about some some some some family matters, which I won't get into right now. If you want to hear this stuff, read this stuff and learn more about the details, then you've got to join the telegram group, right? It's a more intimate setting, it's a little bit more private. I'm not here to talk about everybody's lives and their own family stuff and what they're sharing in their group. If you want to learn this stuff, then you've got to join the group and participate and be a part of everything with us. But, you know, he did write about how people would have that he knows and and and his family knows, people with six figures in debt. Okay, six figures in debt. And you know, there's there's there's in the in the in the the financial plan that they've got is not a good one. And then there's also people that that have a lot of wealth, but they're the way that they've accumulated it and the way that they operate with it is just it's it's it's not it's not healthy. And he basically the long and short of it is that he's disgusted by both groups. Okay, so this gets me thinking about you know just statistics and and and why the the emotional the like the emotional nature of money in general. So I did some some some quick research on this, and I got some statistics on the financial situation of people in America. And basically, here it is. All right, six points of six six points that we're gonna talk about paycheck to paycheck, consumer debt, student loans, medical debt, auto loans, and savings. Okay, so a 2021 survey by Charles Schwab found that 59% of American adults were living paycheck to paycheck. 59% of American adults living paycheck to paycheck. That's more than half of the country that's paycheck to paycheck. And moreover, a Federal Reserve report in 2019 indicated that 27% of adults would struggle to cover unexpected expenses of $400. So one quarter of the country would struggle to cover unexpected expenses of $400, and that was in 2019. Report from the Fed. So think about it. You have no debt, you have three to six months of saving ex of emergency savings. Are you gonna struggle with an unexpected expense of $400? Or are you just gonna dip into your emergency fund, pay it off, and then go back to work, reestablishing that emergency fund so that the time by the time the next emergency happens, you're not thinking about it. I think that sounds like a good way to live. So let's talk about consumer debt, right? The total U.S. household debt reached $14.56 trillion in the third quarter of 2021, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Credit card debt was over $800 billion in 2021, with an average household carrying about $5,300 in credit card debt. Student loan debt surpassed $1.5 trillion in the same period, and mortgage debt accounted for a significant portion of total household debt with an average mortgage balance of over $200,000 per household. Now, I'm not going to talk a whole lot about the mortgage, I'm going to focus on consumer debt, right? So we'll talk a little bit about student loan debt, you know, but I'm really more interested in talking about things like medical debt and auto loans, okay? Especially auto loans. So in terms of student loan debt, as of 21, 2021, that is, 45 million Americans were burdened by student loan debt, and the average student loan debt for recent graduates was around $30,000. On average, $30,000 of student loan debt. And that was a few years ago. It's doing nothing but climbing. I know a lot of people out there who have kids that are approaching college age. There's a lot to be said for scholarships, things like that. You know, maybe you're not getting a full ride, but there's a lot of scholarships out there. $500 here, $500 there, $1,000 here. It all adds up. You know, $500. Real quick math. $500 doesn't sound like much, but what is that in terms of the average student loan that people are carrying? It's 1.6%. Okay, not a lot, but do that twice. You're talking about 3% of the student loan debt that you might carry just by doing a little bit of work. 3%. That's that's that's not chump change. Seems like it, but in the grand scheme of things, it all adds up. We're not teaching children the way that we can and the way that we should. I didn't learn anything about credit card debt. I didn't learn anything about student loan debt when I went to school. I just understood that this is what you got to do, and here are some ways to do it. You know, I learned the hard way. I too, like Dave Ramsey, went through a bankruptcy in my early 20s. Now, I didn't I didn't achieve I didn't achieve that by doing some of the things that he did. I achieved it because I was living like an idiot. All right, but nevertheless, I went through it and I also didn't learn because by the time I went through Financial Peace University in my mid-late 30s, I had already racked up another $25,000 of debt, you know, making more bad decisions. But that's that's what I had to do. That's my story, and that's how what I had to do to learn. Okay, so I had to repeat this cycle several times, and I think a lot of people have to do that. Now, medical debt, it's a lot, you know. An estimated 17% of U.S. consumers also had medical debt, but not just also had medical debt, but medical debt in collections. Okay, medical debt that they couldn't previously pay or didn't previously pay, medical debt that was sent to collections, 17% of Americans have medical debt in collections. Now, auto loans, listen to this. Auto loan debt was approximately $1.41 trillion in 2021 with an average auto loan balance of around $23,000. This is another point of contention that people take with Dave Ramsey and his approach. If you're in debt and you're making an and you're making big payments on a car, it's time to sell that car. Pick up a beater. Go pick up a used Toyota Corolla or a Honda Accord or whatever for five, six grand. Yeah, it's gonna be dinged up, it's gonna be dented, it's gonna have some mileage on it. But I don't know about you. I know a lot of people who are driving old Corollas, old accords, and have gotten them up to 300,000 miles. But Rob, you can't buy a car for five or six thousand dollars. You're not looking hard enough and you don't want to. So here's what happens we don't do anything about the situations that we're in because the pain of staying the same is seemingly less than the perceived pain of change. Okay, key word being the perceived pain of change. Because once we actually make change and once we actually form new habits, it becomes easier. But getting over that initial hump in the beginning, that's the hard part. That's where the pain is, but it's short term. Real pain comes from living a life consistently with debt and being shackled by the chains of it. Okay, and now in terms of savings and emergency funds, according to a survey by Bankrate in 2021, 26% of Americans had no emergency savings at all. And a 2011 survey by the Federal Reserve found that 38% of adults wouldn't be able to cover a $400 emergency expense without borrowing money or selling assets. Okay. This is why I am such a big proponent of Dave Ramsey, because first and foremost, I wouldn't be following or looking for someone like Dave Ramsey or Susie Orman or whoever the case may be for financial advice if I didn't need it. And because I do, who am I to sit here and bicker and parse out what they're saying as far as what's good and what's not? Because if I was so smart, I wouldn't be in the situation that I'm in. So you want to know what the reality is? I'm not that smart. So I'm gonna look to people like Dave Ramsey. And based on all the other financial gurus out there, I think he's a solid one to begin with because it's seven simple steps baby emergency fund, payoff debt, big boy emergency fund, three to six months of savings, no investing until that point, and then start investing. Simple, not easy, but it's simple. You know, going back to the audience feedback, there was a lot of talk about what we learned in childhood, understanding that you know what we can and should be doing to generate income, to build wealth, to get a job, and and and do all of this as children instead of doing what everybody else was doing. So, you know, I think a lot basically the long and short of it is a lot of what we learn and a lot of what we do as adults are things that we learned as children. So, you know, in my case, I don't have children, but my brothers and sister, my my brother and sister do, so I'm around children. I can still have a positive impact on children by doing the things that I do and leading by example, so when they get old enough to better understand why I do what I do, that will be what they understand as reality because they're gonna have plenty of exposure to other people who aren't doing these things, and the best that I can do is you know, be the example, be the change that I'd like to see in the world. And you know, you know, it's it's just it's it's it's a lot. There's a lot there. Now, moving on in the in the discussion, you know, uh Kiraiki wrote, finances are a really interesting topic. She writes that she's changing what she values and how she saves or spends money. She writes that American culture as a whole normalizes mortgages, double mortgages, car payments, and debt in general. I think once I got deeper into enacting self-reliance principles in my life, I valued the concept of working to pay a house, a mortgage, debt in an infinite cycle until I die. And she valued those concepts a whole lot less when she engaged in these principles of self-reliance. Now, for her, the concept of homesteading is, as Nicole Sauce says, living the life I choose on my own terms. Okay, I want to repeat that. Nicole Sauce from Living Free in Tennessee says that homesteading is living the life that we choose on our own terms. Okay? And I think that's really, really, really important to understand. Because my perception of what a homestead is, isn't what other people who I think are homesteaders are doing. I don't see myself as a homesteader, but maybe some other people out there do. I see other people as homesteaders, not me. Okay? I'm working on it, but it's all relative. It's all relative. Nicole writes that homesteading is living the life that I choose on my terms. And by that definition, then indeed I am a homesteader. And I take pride in that because it took a long time to get there. I've spent a decade trying to restructure and reframe how I lived my life. I had to take certain steps, and oftentimes those steps involve taking one step forward and two steps back, but I did it long enough and was persistent enough that one step forward, two steps back eventually became two steps forward and one step back. The whole idea of fall down seven times, stand up eight is what I tried to incorporate in my life. And I ended up making progress, and I still making progress. And sometimes that progress is slow. But these things come true in our life sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them. Okay, so it's important to understand that. Kiri continues to write that trying to be responsible and work towards financial independence of some variety with lots of backup plans is something that she's working for. And she's writes that she's thankful to be aware of that things like financial systems, the quote, dream of retirement, and even the concept of working a quote good job and be keep being taken care of by an employer are not what they were when my parents were my age and aren't even what they were 20 years ago. She continues to write that she thinks that we have to be on our toes in a lot of ways that weren't as blatantly obvious 30 or 40 years ago. That banks in the USA can in fact shut people out of their own money, and this has happened to people in our community. This is not supposed to happen in America, quote. She writes that in quotes. This is, quote, not supposed to happen in America, close quote. And indeed, what people have come here to escape from other countries, yet it is happening. Having diversity in terms of access to multiple bank accounts, having alternatives to Square and PayPal are things that people need to do to continue doing business. She writes that she can say it's something that her parents didn't really need to prepare for, but you know, having some concerns about being canceled or getting shut out of funds, that that, you know, this wasn't really a consideration all that long ago. But times have changed. To her point, times have changed. You know, you don't have to have extreme opinions to get canceled. And if that happens, there's other ramifications that can come from it and of it. Is it possible that you or I might have our funds in our banks made inaccessible to us? Well, probably not as likely as it is to happen to some other people out there, but I still think that that's something to keep in to keep in mind. And with that said, I think when it comes to your emergency fund, I think that it's important to have a portion of that emergency fund saved in cash, not in a bank, and that may or may not be something that I do. Because who knows? If there's a run on the banks and they start putting limits on withdrawals, there's already limits on how much cash you can withdraw from your bank at any given point in time. So why not keep some of that in a safe place at your home? It's not like you're gaining a whole lot in interest in a savings account or a money market account in the bank in the first place. So if you were to keep a few thousand dollars or whatever in a safe place secured in smaller bills, then in the case that something happens where you can't get to a bank or funds are being limited for whatever reason, you still have access to cash. So lots of good comments from everybody in the group, lots of good comments right there for sure from Kiriyaki. And I I that may I really appreciate the insight, and I definitely appreciate the reminder of Nicole's idea and perspective on homesteading, which is living the life of. We choose on our own terms. Wayne continues to write that, you know, this is this is this is profound and deep. The further you get out of the endless debt cycle, the more content and satisfied with your life that you get. You get to spend less time working for someone else's dream and more time working for your own. And I want to chime in and say that I agree with this comment 100%. If you are accustomed to being in debt and then you reach a point where you no longer have that debt and you're working on building wealth, all of a sudden you have something that you didn't have before. Options. Options. You don't have to do the things that you used to do. You don't have to. You just that's it. You don't have to do the things you used to do. Because you don't have the things that you used to have. Deb. I know that because I was that. Right? So he continues to write that unfortunately, banks have done a great job convincing Americans that their dream is to have a fancy car, all the newest things, and that it's smart to pay for it every month. So we work hard, always needing to make more money so that we can get the newer, more expensive version of the widget, because the 2022 model is likely to be so totally 1990. Prime example. Right? They're making monthly payments for a cell phone. I get it. The newest smartphone is so cool, and it takes awesome pictures and it has the stabilizing capability so that you can do cool things with video. But I mean, guys, for 200 bucks, you can buy a refurbished phone that's only a couple years old, and it's you know, based on the technology that we had just five years ago, it far surpasses all of that, and it does everything we need and most of what we want, but it's not the cool shiny thing that everyone else has. So personally, that's what I do. I can't tell you the last time that I got a new phone. I think the last time I got a new phone is when I opened up the when I got a business line and I got a phone, but I also chose the cheapest uh phone that I could because that was free. It was new, but it was free. It wasn't the newest fancy phone, but it was free. And since then, I've continued to purchase refurbished phones for a fraction of the cost of what these new phones cost. Because I'm tired of living in that endless cycle of debt. I'm tired of listening to whoever tell me that I need the newest thing, the fancy thing. Because in order to do that, I have to do exactly what Wayne said is continue to work. So I can make more money to get that newest thing. The reality is I don't need it. It was at this point in the conversation that Rachel posted a picture that had a quote reading, don't compare your budget-friendly lifestyle to people who use debt because they are going to look like they are doing a whole lot better than they actually are. And that's a quote by Rachel Cruz. If you're not aware of who Rachel Cruz is, she is Dave Ramsey's daughter. She is moving forward with Ramsey Solutions and all of the various enterprises that are taking place there. And she's doing a good job of it. She promotes exactly that which Dave Ramsey has talked about for decades, and as their operation continues to grow, with all of the smart bestor pros, tax people, real estate people, all of the guidance and counseling that they provide, they continue to grow and thrive as a business, helping other people grow and thrive financially in their lives and in their businesses. Again, I'm a big proponent of Dave Ramsey. I'm a big proponent of what he does and how he does it, how his family does it, the principles that he's enacted in his own life, the principles that he promotes in his family, in his company. And, you know, if you can find someone who's doing something comparable and doing it better, then by all means let me know. Let me know in the telegram group. Send me an email, allaroundgrowth at gmail.com. Tell me how someone does it better. Tell me why he's wrong. Tell me why, because I'm always looking for more information. I'm always ready to say, you know what? I was wrong. Because I want to learn. As long as it gives me an opportunity to grow. Because one thing about that quote is Rachel wrote, this is this is this is Rachel quoting Rachel. Right? Um Rachel Cruz said, don't compare your budget-friendly lifestyle to people who use debt. People use debt, okay? You don't just acquire it, but they use it like it's some sort of tool. And I I understand, right? I understand the people who who promote this this mindset, this lifestyle, but it's dangerous. It's dangerous. You know, I also understand the mindset and lifestyle of people that that use credit cards so that they can get cash back or airline miles or whatever. And you know what? If you've established yourself in life for years and decades of being able to use these things responsibly in order to get those airline miles or that cash back, then you know what? More power to you. I have not. So I don't do that, and I certainly don't promote it because I think it's stupid. I think it's an easy way to get caught up in the cycle of saying, oh, oh, I owe a thousand dollars on my credit card, but yeah, it's a tight month, you know. Uh-uh, uh, I'll I'll pay $800 this month, and then next month accumulate another $1,000, and then say, oh, you know, it's tight, I'm gonna pay $800. And then all of a sudden I've got $400 on a credit card bill that's that's accruing more than 20% interest, and that continues and it continues and it continues and it continues. And all of a sudden, you've got thousands, tens of thousands of dollars in debt, wondering, oh God, how did I get here? Don't do it in the first place. I don't even have a credit card right now. I'm not gonna get one because if I can't afford it, I can't afford it. It means I haven't been saving properly, I haven't been living properly, I haven't put things in priority. I haven't made saving and I haven't made this particular item priority in my life. I gotta save, I need to live wisely, I need to plan ahead, and then maybe I'll do it. Rachel also talked about Rachel from Rewilder Life and the Modern Homesteading podcast, also shared a podcast from John Willis, where he's interviewing Joel Salatin. And Joel tell somebody that trying to get the uh quote there, I just pulled that up. It is an interview with special operations equipment, John Willis titled John Sits Down with Joel Salatin. And I'll link to this in the show notes as well, a link to everything that I discussed in the show notes so that you can see what it is that I'm talking about, so that you can listen to the interview. And you know, she writes that Joel talks about money and wealth building at about 25 minutes, and I started listening to this, I have not finished listening to it, but it's a great interview. If you have the opportunity to listen to the things that Joel Salatin says, I would highly recommend that you do. If you have the opportunity to see him speak, I would highly recommend that you do that. I've seen Joel speak several times, several different places over the past 10 years or so, and to say that he is inspirational is an understatement. He's doing amazing things, and he provides a great example for people like us to do things differently, to think differently, to live differently. Okay, so I'll link to this interview with John Willis of Special Operations Equipment and his interview with Joel Salatin in the show notes, and I would definitely recommend that you check that out. Um, it's on YouTube. It is something that you can just play in the background. It's basically two of them sitting at a desk. As far as I can tell, they're not pulling anything up on the screen, so it's something that you can listen to in the background as you go about your daily business, but it is good. I've listened to about 30 minutes of it, and it's an hour and a half interview, and it is fantastic. Okay, so I don't really know what else I have to say about this, but one of the personal messages that I received about this was a message where somebody said there's an old saying that we're all three thousand three meals away from anarchy. And I wondered what that saying was all about. What what's this old saying? Where does it come from? Well, here's where it comes from. There's a couple different sources where this where this where this where this comes from. Vladimir Lenin was quoted as every society is three meals away from chaos. And in 1906, Alfred Henry Lewis stated, there are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy. Think about that. Lenin wrote that every society is three meals away from chaos. And author Alfred Henry Lewis stated that there are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy. I think those quotes say a lot for having a savings fund that allows you to accumulate what you need in times of emergency and also says something about being prepared. And I think preparedness isn't what most people think it is, just like homesteading isn't what most people think it is. Again, homesteading, according to Nicole Sauce, is living the life I choose on my terms. By that definition, I'm a homesteader. Are you living the life that you choose on your terms? If so, you're a homesteader. You don't have to be Joel Salatin to be a homesteader. You don't have to be Jack Spearko to be a homesteader. You don't have to be Nicole Sauce to be a homesteader. You just have to live life on your terms to be a homesteader. And you know what? I like that. So I'll link to Nicole's podcast as well because she is creating good content, and with a mindset like that, it's probably one that I ought to listen to a little bit more. Because, quite frankly, sometimes I need a reminder like that to help me understand that I'm actually moving forward and making progress in my life. So, guys, I have a question for you, and I'm just gonna end it on this note. My question to you, and what I'd love to hear in the chat, is what does wealth look like to you? Is wealth more than simply finance and the gains that you make in your financial life? So let me know. Let me know on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, I'll be posting these things there too. But ultimately let me know in the Telegram group, t.me slash all around growth. What does wealth look like to you? Is it more than finance? What does it mean? Let's talk about this a little bit more. Because next week we're gonna talk about something in the physical realm, we're gonna talk about blood pressure, something that uh something that I'm dealing with, something that a lot of other people are interested in, don't know a whole lot about. But we're gonna talk about why blood pressure is high in the first place, and if it is high, what are some things that we can do about that? So stay tuned for next week's show where we're gonna talk about the physical aspect of our lives and blood pressure. But for today, let me know what you think. What does wealth look like to you? Is wealth more than finance? Very curious to hear your thoughts, and as always, I appreciate you listening to today's show. Thank you for tuning in. I hope that you have a great week ahead. This is Rob Kaiser. Thank you, and God bless.